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 Post subject: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtain)
PostPosted: Wed June 23rd, 7:14 pm 
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I was wondering what the general Aristasian view of tattoos and piercings is? Personally I am fond of some of them, obviously the placement of the piercing and the subject and placement of a tattoo matter, but I think both are capable of being very beautiful.

I tend to prefer piercings that have cultural history, ears (of course), nose, and lip are all things that have existed historically in Telluria, and of course tattoos are very ancient indeed.

Obviously some things are terribly bongo and awful looking, but there are many lovely things out there. I personally intend to get a tattoo of a key hole between my shoulder blades in the near future.

There are some very lovely maids with lovely up to date tattoos and some beautiful piercings:
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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Wed June 23rd, 7:58 pm 
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I don't know what to say here. The ladies are pretty but they have made themselves rather grotesque, I think. I am not sure what their motivations might have been since in their day grotesquerie was not generally admired.

I do not like tattoos I fear and I think they are unwise. They long outlast the taste that put them there and become an embarrassment even to the wearer.

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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Wed June 23rd, 8:18 pm 
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I do think that they again can be lovely, unusual certainly, but can be lovely. I think in terms of outlasting taste, that is more a matter of careful decision making. A tattoo that carries much symbolic meaning to the bearer I think can often last a lifetime. The portrait or name of a family member is nice, something that is very symbolic of the person (me and my keyhole) can all be very nice. Of course the aesthetic has to be carefully thought out, but I think like with most potential types of adornment they can be good or bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Sat June 26th, 7:17 am 
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Rayati Miss Elise
Here are my thoughts on the matter. They may be rather convoluted so please bear with me. Hmm, how to begin?

I know the following to be true from experience: I am a different woman now from the woman I was twenty years ago or even last week for that matter. The things I admired and believed in then are not the same things I admire and believe in now. In some ways I've changed drastically in others the shift is more subtle but I am not now the same woman I was. The evidence is only as far away as my closet when I say to myself, "I can't believe I actually WORE this!"

Here is where I a make a leap of faith. Because I know the above about myself to be true, I have to assume this will continue. In the next week, next year or the next decade Miss Daffodil will be a different pette from the one writing this passage. So guess what I like to do?

I like to leave presents for the future Miss Daffodil! It's fun. If I put a little money in the bank today, I can't spend it on something I want for myself now. However, I think of it as a gift for the future Miss Daffodil, someone I don't even know. I have no idea what she will do with the money but I'm sure she will be happy with my gift. When I was in University, I studied and did my reading assignments because I wanted to leave a present, a gift, for the future Miss D who was going to be taking an exam at the end of the term. I know I'd appreciated such gifts from the past Miss D, at any rate.

You see how this works?

Now choosing the proper gift for anyone is not always an easy thing. And when I do so, I always include a card from the store which will allow the recipient to return the gift if they should secretly think it's ghastly.

I confess that on occasion I too have considered the possibility of getting a tattoo. Now and then I see one and think, "Ooooo that is pretty!" Many of my friends have them. But I simply could never decide on the right one to give my future self because I know absolutely nothing about her and this is the one gift that cannot be exchanged (the very point of a tattoo being its permanence). It horrifies me to think the future Miss Daffodil might ever think ill of me and so I refrain.

See? I warned you my thinking can be convoluted!

Rayati,
Miss Daffodil


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Mon June 28th, 12:57 pm 
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Here are my thoughts, such as they are, on this issue:

"Up-to-date" is not a description that automatically confers legitimacy on a maiden's overall look when it is used to justify the piecemeal bits of those deformist mishmosh outfits which, though certain items are good and and pretty, have an aggregate effect that degrades the whole toilette.

Another way of putting it might be, "Are these girls considered elegant, dainty and unexceptional in every way? Is their 'look' one that a gentlemaid ordinarily would wear to church? To a sedate gathering of polite ladies of that era and place?" The answers to these questions may hint at the answer to the question of wholeness (and wholesomeness).

You all know I have decided opinions about this, but there seems to be an unfortunate trend forming these days in attempting to reframe the Pittish mode into something acceptable by Aristasian standards. It simply cannot be rigged to fit.

http://aristasia-central.com/encyclopae ... =deformism


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Mon June 28th, 5:29 pm 
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I think honored Miss Poppy has hit the proverbial nail on the head with a resounding ping.

What exactly were the femini (I cannot say ladies) pictured here in terms of the time in which they lived? Perhaps we are unsure. But let us ask another question - the question anyone of their time would have asked:

Would they have been welcomed in good society?

And certainly they would not.

Perhaps they were deliberately Bohemian and flouting the proper order of their world. Perhaps they were unfortunate creatures forced to turn themselves into living spectacles in order to maintain themselves. We do not know. If we did know, we might pity them or censure them. But certainly they are not the kind of people we should aspire to be.

What we may be sure of is that by permanently disfiguring their bodies, they had permanently - whether deliberately and wilfully or involuntarily and with tears - excluded themselves from Society (except perhaps as occasional curiosities) and banished themselves to the fringes

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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Tue June 29th, 10:34 am 
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Honored Miss Poppy wrote:
You all know I have decided opinions about this, but there seems to be an unfortunate trend forming these days in attempting to reframe the Pittish mode into something acceptable by Aristasian standards. It simply cannot be rigged to fit.

http://aristasia-central.com/encyclopae ... =deformism



I hope I am not playing Devil's advocate here. I absolutely agree that bongo modes should not be deemed acceptable. What I am wondering, though, is this: the passage linked to by Miss Poppy is very true, but I wonder if it times have not changed in a few areas since it was written. At the time of The Feminine Universe, I think the "Victorian frocks and workman's boots" syndrome was pretty much universal insofar as there were Victorian frocks at all. I am not sure that these days there isn't a small movement in some quarters toward a purer appreciation of up-to-date aesthetics.

Of course there is still a lot of workman's-bootery and justifying the unjustifiable is a serious risk that we should always be aware of (and I have to say, with all due respect, that I think the original posting on this thread is a case in point). But I do wonder if the blanket assertion that there is no appreciation of true aesthetic in the Pit is a little less true than it used to be, at least in a few minority areas.

Am I just being gullible?

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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Tue June 29th, 2:47 pm 
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We had a little conversation about this thread today - Miss Poppy sadly floeped before the main part of it, so I thought she - and y'all - might like to see it.

It is a bit higgledy-piggledy as is the way with live chat, but I felt we covered some interesting points:


15:00:06 ‹Farshore-chei› In my Pittish days I wrote a paper on the differences of tattooing and piercing in the history of Telluria - in some countries and times there were certain types that were allowed - but almost always ever for those who were in religious vocations or as a mark of beauty for married femini. Those who did otherwise were only fit for side-shows or entertainment of a slightly less-than-socially acceptable kind, as was stated.
15:01:40 ‹Farshore-chei› But this group of snapsies do not really go together. One pette, I believe the top one, had decorated herself because it was the cultural normative for her people, as I believe the bottom one did as well. The rest were quite socially outcast or should have been as they were Westrenne pettes who would have been only fit for the circus or less proper professions than that even.
15:02:57 ‹Shroom› What is the bottom one?
15:03:15 ‹Shroom› Nose-piercings are very traditional under some circumstances in India.
15:03:35 ‹Shroom› Sometimes even forms of Dea are depicted with them.
15:03:42 ‹Farshore-chei› It was never acceptable in the West to pierce or tattoo oneself outside of piercing ones ears. In certain places in Telluria it has been allowed, and even proper culturally, but you can't try to mix those styles in with Westrenne ones any more than you can wear a kimono with stompy boots.
15:04:03 ‹Shroom› But then they have a whole different meaning from what they have in West Tellurian society.
15:04:40 ‹Farshore-chei› Yes - and things like henna designs are a very lovely Indian way to decorate oneself in a non-lasting way that is just for celebrations to make oneself more beautiful for Dea. But it is /not/ because one is trying to decorate oneself forever and it is not a Westrenne practice.
15:04:49 ‹Shroom› Yes - exactly - you can't say "oh this is traditional" and mix it up with completely different things.
15:05:01 ‹Shroom› Like wearing Cherokee war paint with a business suit.
15:06:19 ‹Farshore-chei› I am quite good at henna designs, but I have only ever worn them on my hands and never during a period when I was working, as it is not a proper thing to show up for work with a lovely blouse and skirt and jacket and ... henna covered hands.
15:06:43 ‹Shroom› No!
15:07:29 ‹Shroom› I think henna designs are beautiful in their correct context.
15:07:32 ‹Farshore-chei› There are certain ways to be proper, both here and the Motherland, and if you step outside those ways then you lose the point of being Real and true to the point of being Aristasian.
15:08:15 ‹Shroom› But isn't that what all this is about really - a society where proper social context is almost gone and some people trying to destroy even the teensy bit that is left.
15:08:25 ‹Farshore-chei› Yes exactly.
15:13:56 ‹Shroom› To me neither the top nor the bottom snapsies look traditional
15:14:14 ‹Shroom› Are they indigenous ladies in Western societies?
15:14:24 ‹Shroom› They seem to be quite mixy.
15:15:32 ‹Shroom› I mean it looks like a sort of "creolized" tradition at best.
15:15:39 ‹Shroom› Not something authentic.
15:15:42 ‹Farshore-chei› I am trying to remember where the bottom lady is from - I know that is a traditional style somewhere.
15:15:55 ‹Farshore-chei› I used a snapsie similar to it for the paper I wrote.
15:16:12 ‹Shroom› The dress is clearly late-Victorian European
15:16:48 ‹Shroom› While the Jewelry is - I don't know - could be Fijian or something
15:16:51 ‹Farshore-chei› It is somewhere the West touched on its way across and the dress style /was/ added to the traditional style, but very early on. But it is not a "pittish mix"
15:16:55 ‹Shroom› but the two together --?
15:17:10 ‹Shroom› Oh I see - how interesting.
15:17:30 ‹Shroom› But rather one of those quirks of cultural history - that Pit types like to latch onto.
15:17:45 ‹Shroom› And say "Look, they're weird like us" - when they aren't.
15:17:49 ‹Farshore-chei› There are quite a few out-of-the-way places where that happened where you do find blendings of east and west, but not in a way as to be deformative.
15:18:37 ‹Shroom› No - Western styles can be incorporated into a traditional ethos. But it is really only legitimate within a very small and particular area.
15:19:17 ‹Farshore-chei› I believe the upper pette is someone photographed by a Westrenne artist but is indigenous. So not Westrenne at all.
15:19:59 ‹Farshore-chei› Yes exactly - not a style that can be taken and used by anyone else at this point in time due to the Pit's love of mix-and-match in destructive ways.
15:20:01 ‹Shroom› A bit the way native Americans made buckskin jackets influenced by European tailoring but incorporating fringing symbolizing the sun's rays.
15:21:23 ‹Shroom› So in a way, a new "symbolic clothing" had been born by incorporating some elements from a non-symbolic rajasic style.
15:21:39 ‹Shroom› But quite legitimately assimilated

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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Wed June 30th, 11:47 am 
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Those pictures make me very, very sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Tattoos & Piercings (images from through the iron curtai
PostPosted: Wed June 30th, 4:26 pm 
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Miss Elise,
I hope you don't mind if I ask a personal question? Do you already have a tattoo? Or are you considering getting one for the first time?

And a question for the others,
Should a maid who has tattoos be ostracized from Aristasian Events and our company even though she is Aristasian in every other way?

Given my earlier explanation I should hope not. That is, the Blond or Brunette with us now is not necessarily the same Pette who gave a tattoo to her future self (if you follow). The woman can grow and change even if the ink does not fade, yes?

Rayati,
Miss Daffodil


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